Thursday, February 09, 2006

CW . . .Have your say

Hi one and all. Nuff been said, last heard MCMC was planning to implement the abolishment of the CW requirement for obtainment of Class A license in 2007.

From the grapevines, Martsnews.Blogspot now know that this is no longer the case.
It seems that the majority of license holders want to keep this as a requirement, for reasons best known to them. Funny though, cause, a gallup poll done by martnews previously concluded that most Class B holders do not want to be restricted in any way where equipment and band limitations are concerned. Then again, this poll was very much restricted to licensed Amateur stations that are identified. (anonymous not included)

So to proove ourselves wrong (and we very very much doubt that we are!) we are again putting this to the public (Amateur Stations only please). In the spirit of blogging, we will allow all permissable postings in the comment sections, so long as you are identified. As this is a very serious poll, we suggest that you do keep to the requirements, or risk facing censure.

So please give your input by;
1. Point your browser to the webpoll on this blog (you won't miss it, if you did, go check your eyesight) and vote YES, do away or NO, maintained.
2. Go to comments and post your reason, and please identify by call sign and handle, MARTS member or non member
3. You may then go back to doing what you were doing before reading this blog!

We will close this poll in time for the AGM, and present this as fact finding.

We thank you for your precious time, and happy DX'ing if you are . . .

73's Martnews.Blogspot.Com

47 comments:

9w2mct said...

I agree, not because I am against Morse. Personally, I am preparing for the exam, simply because I want to convince myself that I can.
But overall, the world has changed. Morse is now more or less a novelty. So why make it compulsory? I can understand is we are in the darker ages. . but we are not, are we?

Justified, nowadays, there are other means to communicate. Why pushit down our throats simply to get that extra knowledge? Learning Morse and using it is indeed a challenge, and it remains that.
Necessity? Possibly . .Compulsory?Not in my opinion . . .

9W2MCT - Tony - MARTS MEMBER

9w2xi - Wilson said...

Don't we all love technology, and in today world of communication we have way s and mean of staying in touch. Ham operator can elect to use his prefered choice of equipment and means of communication.

I stand firm to the believe that morse should be left to the individual to determine if he wants to pursue morse code as an elective subject.

Morse code test should not be use as an advancement barrier to others qualified operator, afterall it does not indicate a Morse code operator (HAM) is a better qualified operator.

Pls goto www.nocode.org to read thru what we all are lobbying.

This is my humble opinion....

73s

9W2CBL said...

Morse code should not be a barrier to prevent others in pursuing their knowledge in Amateur Radio. These days and days to come technology are becoming increasing easily accessible and advance. Less people using Morse code to communicate. Those days where phone are not capable of sending voice, therefore Morse code is created. In today's situation there are means to have our voice propagated over the airs plus a good quality voice can be heard miles miles away.

Ham around the World IGNORE using mores code, and prefer to use voice while they DX'ing or Contesting. They have go beyond in building antenna and transmitter to get their voice propagated as far as they can go with low power and it is proven that voice able to reach where mores code can go. So what for the use of Morse Code? Western country favor in abolishing mores code and they have found mores code is not a mandatory in their DX'ing or during Contesting.

During disaster, there is no mores code being use. Mores code is much more slower then voice. Information are related by using voice.

The explosion of personnel computer power has led to a boom in digital, leading Amateur Radio operator to design Radio Packet such as PSK31 which is design to facilitate low power communication unit on shortwave bands, again voice being use.

Support in abolishing Morse Code for wider band of frequency.

73,
9W2CBL - Richard - MARTS MEMBER

9W2SSJ said...

I have asked many 9Ms..are they still able to send or decipher CW morse codes..the normal reply I get is.."some times forget lah"..

So if CW is made the "requirement" to enable a Ham operator use the bands presently allocated to 9Ms to use..this will defeat the purpose of Hams experimenting with all Amateur frequencies.

We are talking of Slow Scan TV..Amateur TV..now supposedly only done by 9Ms..(tapi tak ada berita langsung)

With the advent of present technology, we are still able to communicate with each other without having to do the da..da...dit.dit..way!

So I say..give 9W Hams the rights as what the 9Ms are enjoying now..
If anyone wants to take the CW exam to include in his own MCMC Licence..there must also be the avenue for him to go for it..but now compulsory to pass CW to get "upgraded".

Satish - 9W2SSJ - MARTS Member

9W2WIL said...

To divert a little, the RAE should not just be graded with a pass or fail. I feel that with proper grading (% in passing)will determine one's ability to understand the proper ability of ham 'radioing'. Take an example, 80% as the ideal percentage of good 'ability'- they should be automatically be recognised as a 9M rather than beginning as a 9W and waiting for a year before progressing. For passes below the good 'ability' a test could be conducted if required. CW should be an interest and not a pre-requisite.

'To the abolishment of the CW test'.

Wilfred
9W2WIL - Marts member - 9M2-25164

9M-10278 said...

A very good evening to all.

I do not wish to be associated with the job I'm holding currently as I wish to come out to speak freely just like any callsign holder.

I'm probably sticking my neck out as the only 9M to leave a comment in this poll. ("don't shoot me, I'm only the piano player", hi hi)
If I may be neutral to this cause for now only to digress a little from the original topic.

Eventhough its all about CW, perhaps those wanting to voice up their stance should also indicate whether is it all to do with getting those extra bands or is it about wanting that 400W power in your licence?? Please don't say both because it could defeat the negotiation table later on. (Being specific sometimes help). E.g. if you feel that you can be responsible for upper band limits only then put your views where it can lead to a win-win situation. But if you think you wish to also operate of HF below 28Mhz (excluding CB), then you must also be responsible for those bands which the 9Ms feel very close at heart. I left CB out because you can do what you want in there and its an open season.

I am only trying to see and help what should be the compromise proposition if the decision status would not change for the better (CW to stay with let say 5wpm, is this acceptable or not?, without compromising myself in my organisation.

Reading the no-code.org is not going to be the solution to the answer at hand because none of the local societies want to endorse the view. Its something like say what you want to say kinda thing.

As another example, views like "I want everything the 9M has but will only pay RM24" will also not be any good either.

Please be objective in your voting. To accept someone saying "Saya ikut saja" will not be good enough.

The reflection when MCMC had placed the public consultation on Amateur Radio (http://www.mcmc.gov.my/mcmc/Admin/FactsAndFigures/Paper/36089725amateur%20PC1.pdf), I don't remember seeing societies drumming their beat and reponding strongly, so ask yourself why is such thing happening?

Last thing to remind everyone that you should do something or anything vide channeling them through your societies (any societiy as it does not matter) for a strong voice, but individual outcry doesn't carry any weight.

Perhaps I should just end here to preserve the self reflection of everyone to ponder upon.

I wish everyone all the best in striving for this poll and hope to see more flurring in.

73 de 9M2RT (Razif) MARTS MEMBER

Anonymous said...

As a strong supporter of incentive licensing and also of CW, I trust that the "no CW" debate will be openly discussed within MARTS.

Without the use of CW I would not be able to make the majority of QSOs from my condo.

73 de Rich, 9M2CNC/G4ZFE and MARTS member since 2001

9M2SC (Steven) said...

Morse Code is still very much in use by many amateur, military and I believe is still a requirement for those who seek a shipping career. Airline pilot still need to know Morse Code. In today high tech world, with various form of high tech comm equipment, Morse is the best form of communications during emergency. I sure many have watch movies relating to these scenario.

I agreed with what Razif-9M2RT has said. We have to be specific what was/were the intention is doing so. Reasons like Morse is a barrier to prevent others in pursuing their knowledge in amateur radio, Morse is no longer in use by anyone, is outdated form of communications are not strong enough to support the call to go for ‘No-Code’. Years ago ‘Morse is a barrier’ was true as there was no ‘B’ Class license then. But today you can already operate once you passed the RAE.

I am not against the call to abolish Morse. I understand there are 9Ws who are interested to experiment on other freq but not able due to restriction in the license. This is where MARTS should come in and champions this. MARTS has to come up with plans and work with the MCMC in implementing different classes of license with different band to work on and power allowed. MCMC has put up the discussion paper a year ago as mentioned by Razif. Anyone knows was there any response from MARTS?

So this is the time to get MARTS to get something done for you all 9Ws.

Wish everyone all the best in getting what you want.

73 de 9m2sc

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

I have NEVER AGREED on ANY FORM of Morse Code testing, not even at 1 or 1/2 word per minute. Not that I am against Morse Code, in fact I like Morse Code, but I feel that we should give people a chance to learn it when they like it, and if they do not wish to learn it, allow them to do so.

I cannot say more but have to agree with Tony, 9W2MCT that learning morse code is indeed a challenge, but should not be made compulsary. Let those interested to take up the challenge do so, and do not force those who do not wish to do so. Further more I believe the same like Wilison, 9W2XI who said "afterall it does not indicate a Morse code operator (HAM) is a better qualified operator."

However, I feel that in our fight against the abolishment of morse code, it is important that we understand in depth about it. I like to make some comments about Richard, 9W2CBL's posting. No offence Richard, but I just want to make some comments here. Well, it it true that day by day technology advances and today, it is easy to communicate via Voice, Image and etc. using wireless communication. BUT, it is still not possible in every situation. Lets use the EME (Moon bouncing) example first. In EME signals travel a very very long distance from the transmitting amateur station, to the surface of the moon and again reflected back to the receiving station on earth. Here, the signal travels a very long distance and are very weak. In this situation, I have not seen
anyone having any success with voice YET. Most EME communications take place using CW and JT44/JT65B modes. While it is possible to send JT44 and JT65B
signals using a computer, I can tell you that nothing is better than tapping morse code in real time and bouncing your signal via the moon. Lets take another example, the meteor scatter (MS) mode. This form of communications uses the tail of a meteor to bounce back radio signals over long distance. The problem of this is that signals are weak and the meteor lasts for a very short period of time. In this case, no voice can be used, and not even human keyed CW. People usually use JT44/JT65B again or computer generated CW at speeds around 100 WPM (if my memory serves me right). I have heard some reports of people using packet here, but am not sure about it.

I am very sorry to say, Richard (no offence again), but hams around the world do not ignore morse code. In fact there are still CW contests being organised. One major contest, the CQ WW CW contest was held in November last year. It really depends, some love morse, some love voice, some love digital modes, its all a personal preference. I have to agree with you Richard that morse code is slower than voice in emergency situations. But we have to remember that in such situation, every power we have is precious, and we cant afford to waste it using voice. Therefore morse code is a good mode to use, but remember its slow and one message that can be transmitted in 5 min via voice may take 10 min via CW. What I believe is that people should look into packet modes that can deliver messages faster in emergency situations. Anyway, this thread is not about emergency so we shall save this for another relevant thread.

Personally, I feel the same as Suchart, 9W2SSJ. 9Ws should be given the rights 9Ms are enjoying now. Furthermore how many 9Ms are using the microwave bands, while a 9W like me who want to use it cannot do so. If you do not use it, please allow us to do so. And also, as Suchart said, let anyone who wants to take the CW exam do so and include it in their license. This can help especially if he or she want to apply a reciprocial license from a foreign country that requires Morse Code Testing. Well Suchart, slow scan TV (SSTV) and Amateur TV (ATV) is nothing new. It has been there for a very long time, but unfortunately not many people explore this. I have exchanged a few SSTV with 9Ws on 144.500 MHz and received many from the HF bands. But unfortunately I can't try out ATV because we need to use frequencies above 1 GHz due to bandwidth requirements. An AM ATV takes about 5 MHz of bandwidth, and how can you do so in the VHF or UHF bands?

I would also like to ask some questions about Razif, 9M2RT's comments. I quote "Eventhough its all about CW, perhaps those wanting to voice up their stance
should also indicate whether is it all to do with getting those extra bands or is it about wanting that 400W power in your licence?? Please don't say both because it could defeat the negotiation table later on. (Being specific sometimes help)." unquote.

Why would wanting both defeat the negotiation table? (Sorry Razif, no offence here) Maybe I have got something wrong here, so please correct me if I did so and accept my sincere apologies.

Lets take the EME example again. EME operation are not restricted to a particular band. People around the world operates EME at 6M, 2M, 70CM, 1.2 GHz, 2.4 GHz and I even heard some up to 10 GHz. I would like to work as many frequencies as possible for EME. Under my current license I am only allowed 50 Watts on 6M, 2M and 70 CM. With this kind of power level, unless one strike lottery on a regular basis, I believe one will have a tremendously hard time working EME. Therefore we need the full 400 Watt power (which is also a bare minimum) for such EME contacts. Then what if we want to go on higher frequencies? Say
1.2 GHz or 5 GHz? Further more, many amateur satellites are experimenting with 1.2 GHz uplinks too. Doppler effect here is terrible, but it is worth experimenting. Do we want to be way behind such advance experiments? So, after making my point here, will these points be good enough to justify for BOTH higher power AND additional bands?

However, I must say that I am very thankful to MCMC and all those involved in the opening of the 28 MHz band. Not because it allowed me DX contacts but because it allowed me to participate in a very new experiment. This experiment is the PSK31 transponder experiment on board AO-51 and PCSAT2. It involves sending PSK31 signals on SSB mode in 10M and it will be relayed to the ground by the satellite on FM mode in 70 CM. The purpose is to try to use PSK31 mode so that many people can chat and share a single channel transponder. 10M was choosen due to the low doppler rate. I was assigned the PCSAT2 PSK31 Transponder Control Operater by Bob Bruninga (WB4APR) from the U.S. Naval Satellite Research Lab. (The transponder is usually off and needs to be activated by a Control Operator before it can be used) Unfortunately this was not very successful and the receiver I believe is experiencing some problems now. But at least we tried it, and I will definately experiment with it again on their next satellite.

To conclude this, I would say that there are many many things that can be experimented with amateur radio. I myself would like to explore further and deeper into radio communications, but now I am at a standstill due to the CW requirement. If this is allowed to be continued, I believe we will be left behind time and loose out to other countries, unless those with full license take up some new experiments. I am very sad with this, but I guess I just have to live with it. I still remembered when the high orbit satellite AO-40 was still alive, I was so desperate to work it, but unfortunately could not because either the 430 MHz and 1.2 GHz band was not opened for 9Ws at that time. People were posting all around looking for contacts from Malaysia, which very sad to say there were less than 5 stations active. Therefore, I hope that the CW requirement will be abolished soon so that those interested to perform more advance experiments can do so.

A big THANK YOU to MCMC for the opening of the bands and for all who took the time to read this message.

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

Ops... sorry, but I forgot to state that yes, I am still a member of MARTS and would like to continue being one...

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC - MARTS Member since 2002

9W2CBL said...

9W2QC, No hard feeling no those comment.. I'm person with open minded, you have your said and I do respect your comment. Truly you are a person with Ham Spirit.

Is not a matter of we want 400W or Class A license, is matter now is to open more spectrum to 9w2 to be experiment by us rather than keep it to build up dust.

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

Thank you very much for your very kind understanding, 9W2CBL.

Yes, I agree with you and I really like your statement "rather than keep it to build up dust". For me personally, I do not bother to upgrade to Class A, BUT I do bother on getting more power and more spectrum.

"Never Agreed to Morse Code Testing"

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

9M2YYY said...

Hi Sion,
We meet again here. FYI, I am also a supporter for the abolishment of the morse code. Early last year, like 9M2RT said, MCMC had placed the public consultation on Amateur Radio (http://www.mcmc.gov.my/mcmc/Admin/FactsAndFigures/Paper/36089725amateur%20PC1.pdf). ONLY 2 person responded to the paper!!(one of them is me.Hi Hi!) It is indeed saddening to see a good opportunity to give feedback to MCMC gone to waste. Therefore, it is very important that all 9Ws be united and agree on a solution and then present to MCMC for consideration. No point ranting about it here as it would only create more flames. Your comment on the abolishment of the morse code without an alternative solution is just like telling MCMC say- WE DONT LIKE IT, ABOLISH IT! I know a SWL who sat for the RAE 3 times but failed! The reason? He is just a bus driver and had not much education. HOWEVER, he is going for the test the fourth time. Does he have any alternative? Or can he ask MCMC to abolish RAE because he dont like it? NO, BUT the MCMC understands his plight and now there is RAE with Bahasa Malaysia option. That is what we can achieve if we give constructive feedback to MCMC and improve things. That is also what MCMC is considering now- to have CW at 5wpm. If the 9Ws dont like it, then come out with a solution and discuss it with MCMC then. For me, MCMC have done their fair part and it is now your turn to do yours too.
BTW, your posting at 12.15pm holds no essence.

'73 de Ah Meng.

9W2ICE said...

I have been an AA for the past year.
I have had interest in this hobby for some 15 years, but only recently, managed to get in touch with people who can help me.

Yes, MCMC is the authorities, and can only act as authorities. We on the other hand are the hobbyist. However, being able only to operate within a limited band frustrates me. Knowing that the other ham stations who can operate without limitation have the knowledge of CW urges me to try.

Lets, understand this. The reason they know the cw is that they grew up with it. I can tell you from experience, that even now, I have to teach my dad how to operate the PC beyond its basic functions.
What I am saying is this, the 9Ms had to learn it because they have no choice. We have been given a choice to take RAE for class B, because those who helped MCMC formulate this (perhaps this was JTM days) had the vision to know that this will help HAM in Malaysia. However, those who are in the know now, seems to think that CW is still compulsory.

Is this going to be a barrier? I can opertae illegally, but it is not right. I have even heard a new 9M say that he learnt it only to get 9M . . .so which is right? To learn it to pass so can upgrade? or to convince MCMC to abolish the requirement of CW to upgrade, so that all HAMS can begin testing and operating in the othe bandwith?

I am fortunate enough to be able to afford some of the equipment, but to penalise me simply because I do not know CW?

It is like saying I do not deserve to be Malaysian because I did not fight the communist . . .

de 9W2ICE - BOB -MARTS Member and proud of it

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

Dear 9M2YYY,

Yes, I understand since a long time ago that you are a supporter for the abolishement of the morse code testing. In your post somewhere else, I have seen that you mentioned only you and your friend responded to the public consultation paper on Amateur Radio by MCMC. But where did this figure 2 come from? FYI, I ALSO RESPONDED to this paper. (For those who like to read my response, kindly email me at 9w2qc@9w2qc.net, I will send you a copy of my comments) I also heard that there were a few others who responded too. So kindly check on the figure 2.

You are exactly right, and it is indeed important that all 9Ws be united and agree on a solution to be presented to MCMC. And FYI, I HAD NEVER asked for the abolishment of Morse Code Testing just because I DONT LIKE IT, SO ABOLISH IT... I have always say that we need extra power for EME on 2M, 70 CM and we need the microwave bands to experiment with SHF EME and some new satellite experiments. I also gave a suggestion to this, that is open up the to 9Ws all privillages of the 9Ms. Such as done in the UK. Maybe I did not state it down clearly, and I would like to apologise for that.

Personally, I feel that having the RAE in Bahasa Malaysia and English is a very good move. SYABAS TO MCMC for understanding the needs of most individuals. However, I do not agree to the 5 wpm Morse Code test. Not even 1 wpm... For me it is no morse code testing at all.

>Does he have any alternative? Or can he ask MCMC to abolish RAE because he dont like it?

I like to comment on the above statement made by yourself. The RAE and CW tests are two different things all together. RAE testing is still necessary to make sure that the candidate knows the RULES of amateur radio, what he or she can and cannot do, and to make sure that the candidate has some electrical knowledge just enough for he or she to safely operate an amateur radio station and to ensure that it would not course EMC or other interference to other radio or non radio users. But for morse code, what does it teach you about amateur radio operation, other than using the CW mode? Maybe I am ignorant or just plain dumb, and if so, someone please advice me on this. Thanks a lot in advance.

In fact, if you use google and do some search, some countries are already proposing about the abolishment of the RAE and self regulating Amateur Radio. In this case, it is really important that everyone is united to the national radio society in my opinion. Anyway, this is off topic, so we will leave it until the suitable time comes.

Thank You.

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

Anonymous said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Marts News said...

Comment from Anonymous 2.22am was removed due to incitation.
Anonymous, please repost WITH IDENTITY.

de Martsnews.blogspot

badman said...

after reading all the responses (pheew..!) i think i'd like to say something too...

i'm quite new in this & don't have enough knowledge to comment much but i agree that cw SHOULDN'T be the ONLY benchmark determining whether one is a qualified class A operator, there's a lot more to it.. i'd say leave the cw to those who really interested in it & have it include in their licence for other purposes - career etc. CW knowledge does have its advantages, can't deny that..

i got nothing against cw, in fact learning it now during my free time, not because of getting a class A but simply bcoz i wanna know what those dit-dah means.. interesting method of communication. just like the sign-language used by OKU (org kurang upaya), tho there're devices in the market to ease their communication, it's still in use..

me being a 9M just bcoz i know cw..? nahhh.. not in this lifetime...! malu lah if later as a 9M i can't answer a simple radio question from a 9W.. & had to ask another 9W for the answer somemore..! nope, not me.. ;-P

in determining operators' classes, better formulate another ways of justifying class B & A licences.. class A is supposedly more knowledgable than class so let's take that as the breaking point..


9W2BAD - bad. clubless, sometimes clueless... ;-)

9W2xyz said...

Ok. I think I can rest easy. Many of my Ali Baba cohorts say I post the longest comments. I think 9W2QC has me beat hands down.

Anyway my 2 cents. First a hello to all my ham friends here. Hope all is well. It's been a while since I have contributed. My apologies.

The CW issue is very close to me because it is an embodiment of many things that are wrong here in Malaysia. Any of you took your motorcycle license recently? The whole idea behind examinations is to ensure candidates can demonstrate skill sets necessary.
So... lets look at this. The ham world is so big now, that there are areas the exams dont even cover. If you ride your bike, do you raise your hand to stop, stick out your arm to turn left? Darn... the rule existed when most bikes were cruising at 40km an hour. Today, with ABS and superbikes... doing 280km.. do we still stick our arms out?

So, using this analogy- what skills do you want hams to have. Our examination syllabus should immediately tell us where the priorities lie. Damn... there should be a section on politeness on the air. If you go by a spectrum of ham activities, that alone should tell you that CW, while it was pertinent at one time... is about as popular and mainstream as motorcycles with handshifters and no suspension.

This is still about as pure a pursuit as any these days. Even the licensing criteria is not a money making concern. Think about it. Lets keep it a prejudice free and accepting area.

Back to CW? Anyone notice that the first company operating telegraphs just shut down a few weeks ago? CW went dead on high seas almost 2 decades ago. Military... oh well.... you know that story.

Many of us do not pursue esoteric facets of the hobby. By not catering to mainstream and creating special requirements... that is exactly what you get. So... if you love this hobby.... love all, serve all.

The other thing about this CW issue. Lets be objective. All of us have the right to choose anything... as long as it doesnt impose on someone else.

Someone once asked me if I was prejudiced. I am. Its ok to be prejudiced. That's how you know whether you like your coffee black or with milk. It's ok to be prejudiced, as long as you dont discriminate others on the basis of that prejudice.

You know, as we get older, there is a faint longing for simpler times and the good old days. In the same way some of us dont particularly like grunge rock, we cannot deny there is a following.. AND it IS MUSIC!

In the end, we will be judged not by how you start things but how you end them. That's what people will remember you by. Dont make idiotic policies. Remember the time when the government spent tax dollars for people sitting in offices and airports with black pens to black out sensitive news and pictures?

Can you see how stupid that rule has become? Do we need the same parallel in radio? As experimenters, we do because we can. Mountain climbers do so because the mountain is there.

Like wise, it is not for us to give reasons why advancement should be championed. It is for those who would like to keep the status quo to defend beyond a reasonable doubt why we should not change. All these half changes are as good as no change. Compromises. Half a lie is no truth.

Those of you who would like to see where I am coming from, write me at alan@safesec.com.my or 9w2xyz@gmail.com - I will mail you a presentation we put together for MCMC on this issue in powerpoint. You decide.

Have a good one and support your fellow hams. We have had enough division.

Anonymous said...

I must agree to a certain extent with Allan 9w2xyz..
This is my one cent comment.
1. MCMC is to review and possibly revamp the whole process beginining with RAE Syallabus, The exam itself,application and enforcement.

Syallabus: This needs a review.It is a bit obsolete. New technologies have appeared from time to time.Safety and amateur etiquette is missing

RAE:The questions set must be relevant to the syallabus. You dont ask " What is the tone used for repeaters?" There are so many tones available. How can a candidate answer this question ?
The answers given must be specific .. no ambiguity. Why must the answers be marked using pencil.This give a room for manipulation by examiners, unless it is being marked by computers.I am not accusing MCMC of any foul play.So far as I know they are fair..1 or 2 may have slipped through.
Why does MCMC do not allow the candidates to take back the question papers.Does MCMC have a small pool of questions.

Application: The form itself is irrelevant.Asking irrelevat questions ..latitude longtitude, sketch of antennas.Many people have drawn a rubber duckie as their anttena.Getting 2 9M2 or MARTS officials to verify.Also sign an oath of secrecy.MCMC is out of date.

Enforcement: There is total lack of enforcememt by the authorities.
Repeaters are being used by non licence holders.Callsigns being loaned to other people.This hobby is supposed to be self policing. Unfortunately the population of ham have grown by leaps and bound.
A bit difficult.
Last but not Least.
We are no more united as it used to be.There is no point to blame anyone as this happened 3-4 years ago.It would be good to know where
we failed so that remedial action can be taken to prevent reoccurance.

United we stand Divided we Fall.

Anonymous said...

I totally in support of the abolishment of CW as a compulsory subject in class A license test.

Most of the commentators here have voiced their views and it seems there’s more than enough of arguments for MCMC to seriously consider CW abolishment.

In fact, to recognise if a class A license holder is capable of CW operation in the future, MCMC could come out with a supplementary grade of license (or “diploma” of some sort) depicting the CW capability of class A license holder. Those who passed the CW test will be awarded with this “diploma” and periodical review should be conducted to ensure the skill is not deteriorated.

Whereas for license upgrade from class B to A, as what have been practising now, one should hold class B license for at least a year and before the upgrade, two class A license holders should be called upon to certify the “fitness” of a class B license holder in different aspects such as proper radio operation procedures, ethics and code of conducts. So just like those new HAMs looking for autographs of the 9Ms in order for to apply for callsign at the very beginning.

CW should never be the hindrance for one to be eligible on 400W of HF as this will defeat the purpose of Amateur Radio in experimenting, testing and operating in this field of knowledge, which is literally unlimited.

Meanwhile, I strongly believe that HAMs in Malaysia are all well-mannered, matured and properly self-governed individuals who are well-abide to rules and regulations laid down by the authority and this I believe, had been demonstrated well based on my experience as a HAM as well as an SWL.

One of the senior HAM, Pak Dollah (9M2DS) conducts lessons from time to time to brief new HAMs in proper operating procedures. Sometimes I even heard someone on the air correcting one’s QSO in terms of operation rules such as the ‘3 seconds pause’ and the use of ‘break’.

So MCMC, what do you think?

Anonymous said...

I have been listening around for a while. Most of the people in the Central area are well behaved and follow rules accordingly.There is i 1 or 2 exception. eg Andy 9w2va seldom says his callsign in full. always VA
You need to go to the North or South. You see pirates operating on simplex and repeater frequencies.Nobody say anything there either they dont care or they do not want to offend anyboby.

Well Central area hams keep it that way. Those wayward ones change your style.
Lets enjoy the hobby together.

9w2bad said...

don't mean to offend anyone but since 'pirates' on airwaves are mentioned, just wanna say something similar regarding it...

leaving comments on this blogsite is very easy - anyone can use any names, others' callsigns included, & get away with it..

don't u think having a comment or posting without any 'confirmed' identification is just like those pirates in the airwaves - no fix names & 'borrowed' callsigns...

btw, wanna ask something abt this 400w power & cw...
in order to use this high power transmission, one needs to be an A class operator, right? & to be an A class, it's compulsory to pass CW test... seems like u must have CW knowledge in order to use 400w power (even for a highly-trained, certified electrical/electronic technician?), do we really need 400w to transmit CW?

m asking becoz i have no knowledge in these CW thingy, slow learner lah, so far only manage to identify 3 CW characters.. hopefully those 400w devices manual doesn't comes in CW format.. :-P

yeah.. shoot me.. m just an ignorant 9W...

Anonymous said...

A PHD holder in Communication Electronics Engineering is not exempted from sitting the RAE.
So who is certified electronic technician ?.
So sit for the RAE pass your 12 wpm morse and get your 9M licence.

It is easy many have done it so can you and I .

Saya pun 9W2 lagi

9W2xyz said...

Bart,
You are absolutely right. Where is the connection between increased bandwith, increased power output and CW?

I usually make myself feel better by telling myself that whatever happens from here on...
there will always be more whiskeys than mikes.

So... an overall majority is not an issue.
So.... Very simple. If you look at the MCMC register... you will know what the ratio of Mikes to Whiskeys are.

SOLUTION TO PROBLEM.

Dont Cnnsult the MIKES>
Just run a survey... ask all the whiskeys what they want. If more whiskeys respond than there are mikes alive and functional... .then I take it we should abolish CW.

Whats so difficult?

All this arguments for what. Let me put it this way. Lets say they abolish the CW, the only respect you will get from a CW proficient Ham is to be able to transmit in that mode. So.. if thats what you want.. study. Keep the exam. Some people have full B motorcycle licenses. They took a special exam. What difference? Give everyone a full B. You take exam in a Kancil, you get to drive a ROlls....


All this politicking....

Keep the exam.
Scrap the requirement.
Open the band.
Make friends.
When in doubt, look around and see if you are the only bloody fool doing it the old way.
Don't hold others back.
Make more friends.


73s all.....

badman said...

yes, i know i can do it, it's just a matter of choice whether to take it this yr or next or even in 2010, when cw requirement most probably been abolished... i'll decide when to test my cw proficiency in my own sweet time & it won't be just for the sake of having a 9M title...

RAE is to verify u know ur stuff regarding the basic of being a ham, things like some technical stuff, regulations & procedures.. apart from the tech stuff, the other 2 are not included in any academic exam, neither in school's 'kemahiran hidup' nor a PHD level evaluation... btw, most PHD holders are not certified technicians but grads from tech school, working in the field are.. ;-)
i just don't see the connection between having a CW knowledge & handling higher power level of transmission, nor did i see the connection in operating broader frequency band when most CW are being transmitted in HF..

"Saya pun 9W2 lagi"
as 9w, one should know better how to break into a QSO - by identifying oneself with the valid callsign.. without that the person will considered as 'pirate' OR maybe just can't disclose that 9W2 since it's a borrowed one..??

9W2BAD - damn proud of it, not hiding.. siap bold lagi tu..

Anonymous said...

anonymous said: >"So MCMC, what do you think?"

Ini macam punya species pun ada ka...

MCMC want to reply oso will ask, lu sapa? John Doe? ada IC ka?

I oso wan 2b anonymous mah..

Anonymous said...

i think we should open all bands enjoyed by class A to all. those who interested in cw, cud sit for the test, n get 9M. those who are not interested, they dont have to sit for the test, n maintain 9W. most important everybody enjoys the previledge operating on all bands.

y i reluctant to support the abolishment? simply bcoz it is a special old way of communication. only simple and handy equipments are needed such as small battery, a rig n morse key n simple dipole etc.

actually, learning morse code is not that difficult. IF U NOTICE, WE R JUST REQUIRED TO MEMORISE A-Z (26 CHARACTERS), 0-9 (11 CHARACTERS) PLUS SOME COMMON PUNCTUATION (ABT 5 CHARACTERS). ALL IN WE R ONLY NEED TO MASTER 42 CHARACTERS ONLY. IT’S A MATTER OF GETTING USED TO THE SOUNDS. DURING OUR SCHOOL DAYS, WE DID BETTER THAN THIS. IN THE U, IT EVEN WORSE, BUT ALL OF US SURVIVE, SOME EVEN PROCEED TO MASTER N PHD. SO....GO FOR IT...I DON MIND HELPING ANYBODY WHO R INTERSTED TO STUDY CW. U WILL FIND IT AS FUN AS U LEARN THROUGH. ALL DA BEST TO ALL OF U.


73 88

born as 9W2DQ
growed as 9W2RJR
matured as 9W2JPJ
getting old as 9M2CIA

9w2ckc said...

Actually I thought this blogspot is for HAMs to voice their views and not for insulting other’s comment? Especially only insulting the line “so MCMC, what do you think?”

Interesting isn’t it?

9W2MCT said...

QSL, Ken, to say something is easy, there is a chinese saying.
You can eat any food you want, if it does not agree with your stomach,
you will only have a stomach ache. You should not simply say things as
words cannot be retracted!

To criticise easy.To do something, difficult. This blog was created for people
to comment if they want to. Some choose to comment and some give
good suggestions (there is one for MARTS to apply for a special callsign and to use this
for the our Malaysian astronaut).
As for others, they enjoy seeing good things being insulted, or perhaps destroyed.
Someone tried to post some religious notice, inciting, or otherwise, IT IS NOT FOR US TO JUDGE.
We just avoid these issues, as we are suppose to (We removed it!)

So, long story short, people are people, they can say anything, but saying withoutidentifying themselves?
Just ignore it . . .if it is damaging to the blog, then it will be removed.

73s, de 9W2MCT

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

Hello All,

I refer to 9w2bad's 1.42pm posting. Since no one answered his question, I guess I'll try to answer it here.

>btw, wanna ask something abt this 400w power & cw...
in order to use this high power transmission, one needs to be an A class operator, right? & to be an A class, it's compulsory to pass CW test... seems like u must have CW knowledge in order to use 400w power (even for a highly-trained, certified electrical/electronic technician?), do we really need 400w to transmit CW?

Yes, when doing contests on HF, or when working a heavily pile up station, 400 watts on CW really helps. Of course, in any case, the more power the better. When doing EME operation, I can say that 400 watts CW is the most bare minimum, with a quite decent EME antenna system.

Hope this helps to answer your question :)

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

9w2axn said...

>dear dx'ers, from the most of the blogs, its apparent that most wants CW to ceased being 1 of the conditions for access to broader radio band. imho, nobody is saying that CW is no longer needed, CW can not only be transmitted audioly but visually as well, who knows when we might need such skills. Maybe we can ammend the format to include such electives in the RAE e.g. much like the scouts skill badges..
e.g.
i. proficiency in electronic
ii. computers and digital comms
iii. satellites comms
iv. SOP
v. CW, and such...and have somekind of rating.

but there is also the need to address the pros & cons in giving broader tx/rx facilities..i.e. giving xs to a powerful fast car to the irresponsible...the impact (pun intended) could be devastating....>for a wider & farther range of tx/rx..cames certain responsibility and accountabilty< or like thay say "power w/o control is nothing"..or smthg like that

the end, imho...

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

I can't say more but to agree with what 9W2AXN proposed.

Yes, there are pros & cons in whatever we do. But, whatever it is, using CW to judge a person's capability to handle more bands and more power is just inappropriate in my opinion.

I would propose that the existing RAE be strengthened, or perhaps:

1. Have 2 classes of license (one with full band one with limited band) that requires two levels of RAE (one hard, one easy)

2. Strengthened the existing RAE, and include a practical test to make sure the candidate knows how to install and operate radio apparatus properly. (Example, connection rig to power supply, soldering N and PL-259 Plugs, Grounding equipment effectively and etc.)

Thank You.

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

Anonymous said...

Being very young in this faternity, I feel really challenged to say something somewhat intelligent if not acceptable to the many before me.

However, I think it is pertinent to remember that which ever direction we as a community choose to go, it should be for a common goal.

The common goal within our country and the amatuer radio faternity seems to be somewhat disillusioned when one reads the current situation.

I think this site and contents pretty much says what I think the future of amatuer radio should be.

Maintaining ham radio is no objective - developing ham radio is.

Volker Grassmann, DF5AI

http://www.df5ai.net/ArticlesDL/HamFuture/HamFuture.html

Regards
9W2ADR - Adrian

Anonymous said...

Further my earlier posting, it is my intention to have this community grow. Not just at a community level but at a national level.

We all can agree that the level of interest and participation is indeed lacking.

How can we then bring about improvement , diversity, advancement if we choose to stick to restrictive barriers to participate.

How can we expect people to learn to embrace amatuer radio when we are still using controlling policies which disallow growth and impede self expansion at greater depth into this field.

Let us all think for the better of amatuer radio.

Using CW as a qualification for band restriction at the current band allocation is impeding growth, retarding the future of amatuer radio and will painfully see the demise of a hobby with so much potential.

Best Regards

9W2ADR

badman said...

thanks QC for answering.. :-)

ham is mainly abt experimenting with radio communication & CW IS a form of communication, can't deny that.. m not against it at all, but to me it's abt time the authority re-structure the method used in evaluating proficiency. CW shouldn't be the ONLY benchmark in deciding licence class. if the authority (& old-timers) still want it to be in the highest (elite) class, can always have it mentioned in the licence. i.e. 'class A licence (with CW)' in comparison to only 'class A licence' just like those academic degree title, or scout badges like AXN mentioned.. might have some use for certain ppl career path..

maybe it's time we have a few level/class of licence to fit the current situation.

9W2BAD

Anonymous said...

Dear all,

Please beared in mind that our local RAE exam standard is very very basic. Those zero in electronic with some luck can pass.
In fact many many have passed.
How many of you guys on air have at least a good basic in electronics?

If MCMC allow you guys to go on 400watts can u imagine the amount of interferences on all freq band. How to control the situation if this really happen????

Let have some control over this 400watts issue and best leave it to MCMC to decide.
DEFINATELY 400watts should not be allowed to 9W even if the band is open.

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

I refer to anonymous 2.51pm.

Well, you mentioned that what will happen if 400 watts is given to us and interference is caused on all freq band.

You also mentioned that 400 watts definately should not be allowed to 9Ws...

Come on, why say like that about us 9Ws... You mean that this will not happen with 9M operators? What does CW teach you to handle 400 watts and power??

Remember, the only difference between a 9W and 9M is the fact that 9M supposely 'knows' CW... thats all... we all take the same RAE, nothing different.

So, please have some respect with 9Ws license holders. Do remember that 9Ws license holders have did MANY THINGS that MADE MALAYSIA KNOWN AROUND THE WORLD...

Its unlike people like you who don't even dare to sign with your name and callsign...

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

Anonymous said...

Roger, if 9W's really can behave and know the procedure then is OK.

If there is a Dx pile up you do not have to challenge those Big Guns by increasing to 400W???
There could be operation 1K???
Is that neccessary to jammed it???
Wait for your turn.
Here 9M's would not like to DX this way just to take that station with 400W???
That is where the QRPP mode introduced.


But again, if many 9W's start whacking 400W this will caused RF interferance havoc in the whole city.
If so HOW? Who should be responsible for causing all the RF interferences in the city?

My neighbours will start blaming me??? Eventhough, I did not TX. Please do not push on 400W issue any furher before MCMC start to implement new ruling for an annual inspection on all home stations. S'pore does that annually [inspection] and do you guys want this to happen here?

MCMC will decide what best for 9Ws.
Behave and do not demand like a kid want toys and icecream.

Sion Chow Q. C. (9W2QC) said...

I refer to anonymous 5.37 pm. Again I stress that if you have the guts to comment, kindly sign with your name and callsign like how I sign my posts.

>Roger, if 9W's really can behave and know the procedure then is OK.

So are you trying to say that 9W do not know how to behave and don't know the procedure? Come on friend, you mean by learning CW you will know how to behave and know the procedure... Don't talk rubbish here please.

>If there is a Dx pile up you do not have to challenge those Big Guns by increasing to 400W???
>There could be operation 1K???
Is that neccessary to jammed it???
>Wait for your turn.
>Here 9M's would not like to DX this way just to take that station with 400W???
>That is where the QRPP mode introduced.

This shows that you CLEARLY DO NOT KNOW HOW A DX PILE UP IS BEING HANDLED. Yes, there may be 1K stations. Using 400 watts doesn't mean we need to blast 400 watts and jam them. Come on man. We use the high power to bring advantage to the dx station that may be running under extremely difficult conditions. The use of 400 watts can aid them to hear us more easily and with that we can complete the QSO more easily and rapidly. May I suggest you use google to search and see for yourself how some rare DX stations operates.

>But again, if many 9W's start whacking 400W this will caused RF interferance havoc in the whole city.
If so HOW? Who should be responsible for causing all the RF interferences in the city

You think we are so crazy to whack 400 Watts for no reason? Come on, please have some respect for the 9W operators. Some of the 9Ws had made amateur radio in Malaysia proud and known around the world where even 9Ms have not achieved yet. Who should be responsible for causing all the RF interference in the city? Of course the amateur themselves. We are entrusted by the authorities to be able to regulate our operation ourselve.

>My neighbours will start blaming me??? Eventhough, I did not TX. Please do not push on 400W issue any furher before MCMC start to implement new ruling for an annual inspection on all home stations. S'pore does that annually [inspection] and do you guys want this to happen here?

Well, I really don't mind they come inspecting on us. If all our equipment is legal, if we are operating within our license and if we are not breaking any laws, why get scared or worry?

>Behave and do not demand like a kid want toys and icecream.
Please have some sense when making statements, and PLEASE SIGN WITH YOUR NAME AND CALLSIGN.

73,
Sion Chow Q. C.,
9W2QC.

Anonymous said...

Better get the full band open first. Do not put the carts before the horse.

9W2MCT said...

Truly, SION, this anonymous posting need not be considered.
For oe,I can tell you that your point holds water.
Lets look beyond 9M and 9W. What IS the difference?

If this guy (ANonymous )claims that hesays that 9Ws are responsible? TELL ME WHO!!
FOr two, can say safely, that no one operates out of frequency, as far as I can tell....
and the guys who are pumping out 400W, is that your real outut???

the authority can place the ule/law, they dont know any better, because thay are respnding to the 'majority'!
In this case, I can say safely, 9W outnumber 9M by two to one!
If MARTS can push this sibject to a pointwhere it represents the majority, then where will the 9M stand??
I am trying to take the CW to try and get the 9M and fight for the majority. . .

For three, I believe the way forward from Amateur Radio is to convince the young to take this up to a dfifferent level . . ..not to undermine the old, but its been 50 years . . .what is happeneing to us???

WHo is listennig to us??? If MARTS do not bring us bring forward, who will??

I WANT TO SAY THIS, lets look beyond the 9M and 9W, question ourselves, what is our motive?? Because of pride?? or do we really consider the 'safety'issue of it?? I can tell that there are people who are unhapppy and are quite pleased to 'double' when I transmit. I tell you this, don;t let me find out who? Because, the authorities clearly know their stand . . . so please make me happy and do the irresponsible thing . . .cos, if you only think like a matured person, hen you will know that doing the right thing will benefit all . . .. only then we can grow, as a community, like the MALSYIA BOLH spirit .. . . . .so grow up . . .and think like an adult.

call me if you have an issue . . .

9W2xyz said...

For those who still see the pertinence of Morse...


(file:///F:/XYZ/Web%20Sites/060131_western_union.html)
After 145 years, Western Union has quietly stopped sending telegrams.

On the company's web site, if you click on "Telegrams" in the left-side navigation bar, you're taken to a page that ends a technological era with about as little fanfare as possible:

"Effective January 27, 2006, Western Union will discontinue all Telegram and Commercial Messaging services. We regret any inconvenience this may cause you, and we thank you for your loyal patronage. If you have any questions or concerns, please contact a customer service representative."

The decline of telegram use goes back at least to the 1980s, when long-distance telephone service became cheap enough to offer a viable alternative in many if not most cases. Faxes didn't help. Email could be counted as the final nail in the coffin.

Western Union has not failed. It long ago refocused its main business to make money transfers for consumers and businesses. Revenues are now $3 billion annually. It's now called Western Union Financial Services, Inc. and is a subsidiary of First Data Corp.

The world's first telegram was sent on May 24, 1844 by inventor Samuel Morse. The message, "What hath God wrought," was transmitted from Washington to Baltimore. In a crude way, the telegraph was a precursor to the Internet in that it allowed rapid communication, for the first time, across great distances.

Western Union goes back to 1851 as the Mississippi Valley Printing Telegraph Company. In 1856 it became the Western Union Telegraph Company after acquisition of competing telegraph systems. By 1861, during the Civil War, it had created a coast-to-coast network of lines.

Other company highlights:

* 1866: Introduced the first stock ticker.
* 1871: Introduced money transfers.
* 1884: Became one of the original 11 stocks tracked by the Dow Jones Average.
* 1914: Introduced the first consumer charge card.
* 1964: Began using a transcontinental microwave beam to replace land lines.
* 1974: Launched Westar I, the first U.S. dedicated communications satellite.

On Jan. 26, the last day you could send a telegram, First Data announced it would spin Western Union off as an independent, publicly traded company.

Also... a short chronology.

Mar 22 1942 The BBC began broadcasting in Morse code to the French Resistance.
June 12 1998 Radio Society of Great Britain - abolishes Morse.
May 29 1998 New Zealand and Germany join in.
August 6 1999 Switzerland unilaterally discontinues Morse testing
Feb 5 1999 Morse officially goes QRT on high seas
Canada, Australia, New Zealand follow suit.




I dont know about most of you, but I dont think at this age of data terminal and video phones,
I want to insist every house must first have a rotary dial phone.

Anonymous said...

I have been on HF for 35years, I own a 500W Amp and hardly use it because of very high RF pick up within my home and affecting my n/bours. My RF grounding resitance is within 5-7 Ohms which is very good. Even on 100w can cause some RF pick up on telephone lines.
Why not you guys try this out and get many stations to TX at 400W on the same freq and on the same time.

What will be the effects?
You GUESS!!!

9W2SAI said...

I for one would say that there are more 1 way to obtain a 9M license than just to take the CW test.

Morse has always been the prefered way of communications since the olden times, reason being said some 44 postings above so I don't need to repeat what everyone else is saying.

What I would like to speak my mind is that to obtain a Class A license, it would be more justifieable to test a person's knowleadge in HAM radio. There are many Class B license holders who are skillfull in other matters relating to HAM radio, either in operations or theory or others. Test the knowledge of these people and you can see, that they can be more knowleagble than some 9M's. Don't make CW test a requirement for obtaining Class A license. Someone like myself, who has very limited knowleadge of electronics, antenna building and other HAM related matters can study extremely hard and take the CW test, but what does that make me? A half baked Class A operator.

Let the CW test be an option, to those who wants to gain extra skillset, but not a requirement. I would agree that CW should be abolished in the process of obtaining a Class A license because there are many other ways to obtain it. Prolly you can put some electronic components and all those who wants to obtain Class A license should be able to build a radio set and be able to transmit with those components put together. This would test the true knowledge of a HAM. There isn't any purpose if a Class A operator would know how to transmit Morse but do not know how to build a radio set from scratch and making it a workable DX set.

So in summary, to obtain Class A license, CW test should be made a requirement.

9W2SAI - Saiful MARTS member

badman said...

sai.. the whole passage & the last sentence contra lah... (or me misunderstood... pardon my engrish.. donno speaking lah);-P

waa.. semua so worked up on the 400w issue but still, someone is missing the point here.. again, it might be due to my bad engrish.. let me repeat the question again "WHAT DOES KNOWLEDGE OF CW GOT TO DO WITH THE ABILITY TO HANDLE HIGH POWER OUTPUT?" does the instruction manual for high-power devices comes in CW..?

c'mon, don't insult ppl just bcoz of their title lah, it goes well beyond this blog to more than half the nation's valid ham licence holder.. BUT if we still wanna dispute this 'title vs knowledge' thingy, JOM..!

then since this annoying-moose doesn't come with any callsigns, we can safely assume that s/he is not a valid ham, meaning didn't even sit for RAE, which rank him/her lower then a 9W like me... hey! i passed the exam & got documented proof, valid in court (i think).. do u have one..??! dare to show it..? jangan cakap saje.. semua orang pun boleh...

without a licence, this person should not be even near a radio-comm device except maybe those FRS.. BUT still s/he is (illegally) playing with high-powered devices which causes interference in the neighborhood. if MCMC starts to do inspection, who loses the most..?? of course la this annoying-moose who doesn't have any valid licence yet playing with high power illegally...

35yrs on HF..?? well, that's the beauty of being unknown isn't it? - can say anything without having to prove it..

still got more to say but will reserve it for 'future use'... bring it on..!


73 - only to valid licence holder, annoying-moose not included
TheInsultedClassBLicenceHoler

9W2WIL said...

9w2sai - requirement or not? contradicting statements.

quote unquote : ....to obtain class A license, CW test should be made a requirement.

....let the CW test be an option, to those who want to gain extra skillset, but not a requirement.